Creating Digital Pathways: A Three-Pronged Approach with Marvin Venay

We’re already living in the digital revolution. Are we setting our communities up for success? This season of Public Hearing is tackling all things Digital Equity - from small towns to national organizations - to better understand the obstacles and pathways to achieving digital equity.

In this episode, Josh speaks to Marvin Venay, Chief Advocacy Officer at Tech Goes Home (@techgoeshome) about the importance of thinking about individual learners holistically, meeting people where they are, and addressing all “three legs of the stool” of digital access. 

Public Hearing is a podcast from Action! by Design where we explore the unique challenges and opportunities facing Massachusetts' Gateway Cities as they work to create more equitable, liberated, and sustainable communities. Listen to all of our episodes at https://publichearing.buzzsprout.com/ and follow us on Twitter @PublicHearingMA to keep up to date on all things Public Hearing!

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Transcript

Joshua Croke (00:00):

Hello, Worcester and the world. You are listening to Public Hearing on WICN 90.5FM, Worcester's only NPR affiliate station, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm your host Joshua Croke, and we are excited to be back with this new season of Public Hearing. Public Hearing is Action! by Design's podcast and radio show, where we explore the unique challenges and opportunities facing Massachusetts Gateway Cities as they work to create more equitable, liberated, and sustainable communities. Each episode we bring you stories of community change work, featuring the people and organizations working to make a difference in their communities. We dive into issues like affordable housing, accessible transportation, equitable education, and hear from experts and community leaders about the solutions they're creating to address these challenges. Whether you're a policy wonk, community organizer, or just someone who cares about creating a more fair and just world, this podcast is for you.

Joshua Croke (00:52):

So hit subscribe, keep listening, and let's keep doing the work. Learn more about the show at publichearing.co. This season, we are focused on closing the digital divide and focused on digital equity, ensuring everyone in our communities has access to reliable internet devices and resources to learn how to effectively use these tools to access everything from healthcare, to education, to job opportunities and more. Our guest today is Marvin Venay. Marvin is the Chief Advocacy Officer at Tech Goes Home, an organization serving folks in eastern Massachusetts that helps communities access and use digital tools to overcome barriers and advance lives. Marvin is a relationship builder, advocate, political analyst, public speaker, and entrepreneur. Before joining Tech Goes Home, he effectively operated a boutique consulting firm as its co-principal. He also served as Director of Engagement at UU Urban Ministry, Deputy Director of Government Affairs at the Mass Treasury, and as the Executive Director for the Mass Black and Latino Legislative Caucus. Marvin is a community voice for the disenfranchised and a proponent for equity in all that space in all spaces. Marvin, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. Following the the bio, I always invite guests to share any additional information about themselves, their identity, social location, experience, anything you feel may be helpful to share that could, might give our listeners a bit more insight into who you are and your connection to the topics that we might explore today. So, Marvin Venay, welcome to Public Hearing and thanks so much for being here.

Marvin Venay (02:26):

Joshua. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate this opportunity. Um, you know, it was, it is great to hear that we could talk about some of this work, uh, outside of the, the base of Boston, uh, where we are located. Uh, I live in Roxbury and, uh, you know, this, this climate right now for digital equity is evolving. Uh, it's one in which we are finding that the pandemic actually gave us a lot of latitude to discuss it, but it also afforded us the opportunity for us to talk about solutions a little bit more than we have in years past. And so, I'm, I'm excited to be here, um, and looking forward to the conversation, and I'm ready to go.

Joshua Croke (03:03):

Awesome. I was actually just in Roxbury area this past weekend. 

Marvin Venay (3:07):

Okay. 

Joshua Croke (3:08):

I was getting a tour of the Dudley Neighbors Initiative. 

Marvin Venay (3:10):

Ah, okay. 

Joshua Croke (3:11):

Looking at exploring Community Land Trust, which is a future season 

Marvin Venay (3:15)

Yes. 

Joshua Croke (3:16):

Of Public Hearing, talking about community wealth 

Marvin Venay (3:17)

Yes. That's a big topic. That's a big topic. 

Joshua Croke (3:20):

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Venay (03:21):

So the other thing I'll add is that I'm originally from Pittsburgh, um, and, uh, uh, you're, you're, you're situated in Worcester, correct?

Joshua Croke (03:29):

That's right. 

Marvin Venay (03:30):

So I have my, my oldest graduated from Holy Cross, um, and my, uh, she's getting her master's down. Then my youngest is, is a junior in high school. So, um, I have some, some ties to the Worcester community will forever be indebted to the, to the community for support during her years.

Joshua Croke (03:47):

Fabulous. Thank you. So shout out to Holy Cross. Uh, awesome. So, Marvin, we've talked with previous guests about kind of the three legs of the stool when we're discussing digital equity, access to the internet, number one, devices number two, and, and training number three in maybe no particular order, but training to effectively utilize those first two. 

Marvin Venay (4:07):

Okay. 

Joshua Croke (4:08)

And so Tech Goes Home really tackles all three of these. And so I want to get into a, a bunch of stuff today specifically around, you know, digital exclusion and policy and the work that, that you are really engaged in involvement. But for, for listeners, can you share a quick kind of Tech Goes Home pitch?

Marvin Venay (04:25):

Sure. Well, you know, you, you, you've, you've given it already. I mean, you said we, we covered the three legs of the stool, you know, and, and the reason I I start with that is because we are very unique organization. There are many organizations that cover one or two pieces of the stool, but we actually cover all three. And so we provide a, a piece of equipment and, and that's either an iPad or it's in a Chromebook depending on the age, because we cover anywhere from ages three. Our youngest, uh, learner has been three, and our oldest has been 96. So you can see that we have crossed generations and in multiple ways. Uh, but once we provided you with that equipment, we're now providing you with, um, internet access to be able to utilize that equipment in your home during the process. And then we're, in addition to that, we're giving you 15 hours of digital training.

Marvin Venay (05:16):

That digital training is catered and designed according to the needs of the population that is being met. So, for instance, if we partner with an organization, let's just say the local Y in Worcester, if we were to partner with that organization, we would bring our team to train the staff there to develop curriculum. And then they would, they would create curriculum based upon the needs assessment made there at the Y. And then what they would do is they would, you know, create a cor- a classroom, we would teach them classroom management, we would teach them evaluations, and then we would go ahead and get them set up so that they can actually execute the work. From there, you're gonna get someone who is now feeling like they are digitally included and no longer on the outside of the barriers. With that, I want you to make sure, I wanna make sure that everyone understands it.

Marvin Venay (06:05):

That doesn't mean that because they've ran through a course by TGH, that now life is just beautiful. There's still a process, there's still gr- many of our learners come back again and learn more information. Many of our learners find that, that the, the, the information that they've been provided actually has afforded them access to be able to get a new job, uh, connect with their family differently, use telehealth, um, and, and in other areas to advance their lives. And so this is a, this is more of a forward thinking process. This is not just a basics, let's just get you in the door and then we no longer talk to you. We're trying to figure out ways, uh, to reengage people to make sure that they are actually being able to achieve their goals and creating new goals, because we want to take people to new levels, right? We don't want them to feel like that they're just, you know, on the sidelines. We want you to actually feel like you're in the game.

Joshua Croke (07:00):

Absolutely. And you know, it, the internet has such an expansive place, right? You know, the tools and the resources and the different, um, areas of access are, are also, it's so critical to kind of learn and, and, and grow within those spaces. And we pulled some stats and you've done really incredible work. And like the outcomes have been so high. Um, in 2021, over 4,000 learners graduated from Tech Goes Home, I believe. 54% got a newer, better job, or got a pay raise, 74% used their skills to access telehealth, 80% access vaccine information or scheduled vaccines online. 91% still have access to internet a year later versus like 73% before 98% of school-aged kids are better able to do homework online. 74% students improve their grades. Those are sig- really, really significant and have a echo effect in not only that individual's lives, but the lives of folks around them. 

Marvin Venay (08:02):

Right.

Joshua Croke (08:03):

What is the outside of the, kind of focusing on all three legs of that stool? And I, I think also what you're communicating as like a very community informed process for building the trainings. What, what else makes Tech Goes Home so successful?

Marvin Venay (08:18):

Well, listen, what you just described are our data points, right? And in those data points, they represent people. And we're always thinking about the people at the very beginning. Uh, in the very end of our day, we need to understand what is best going to be and what can we do best to serve the learner and to give them an experience that will change their life, right? So this is not about, this is not about this one moment. Again, I gotta reemphasize that because we are really trying to think of the person holistically. How do I make impact in your life today that will make impact in your family tomorrow that will then make impact in your family 10 years from now? That's the sort of mindset and thinking that we have here at Tech Goes Home. So when you listen, when you see those stats, trust and believe that we have invested in the individuals who are on, who make up that deciding factor of that data, because we want to make sure that we are making real change.

Marvin Venay (09:12):

I'm gonna take a step further. We're coming to Worcester and, and I'll talk a little bit about, let me talk a little bit, take a step back and give you some exciting news that's coming out as well. So many of you know that we are situated in the city of Boston. We've moved into Essex County, and now we are moving into Western Mass in a couple weeks, but we're coming to Worcester as well. In fact, we just hired the first individual who will lead our advocacy work there in Worcester, who, I can't disclose the name at this point because they have not began yet. And I want to keep it a surprise because we have some plans for that. But I want you to know that we are, we believe so much in the work and the communities that we work with, that we want to invest in the people in the community, right?

Marvin Venay (09:54):

We don't, we're, we're an organization that does not believe in coming in and swooping in with ideas and interests and agendas. We want to come in and be a part of the fabric there. And in order to be a part of fabric, we have to partner with the people who, who understand the landscape better than anyone, the people who live there, the residents. And so we are deep diving into the places and spaces in which we are partnering in so that we better understand exactly where the need is. Because everyone comes in and you have a, you're, you make assumptions, you have explicit bias, you have ideas, you have interest, da da da. We're trying to get away from that. And we strictly want to make decisions that are calculated based upon informed exchanges, informed relationships and relationships that are building and not stopping at a, from a one-stop shop perspective.

Joshua Croke (10:50):

And that's such a critical piece as, as like an equity centered community practitioner builder going in and being an active listener and engaging and, and supporting and cultivating folks who are in place, who are in these communities is so critical. And that is where you see the greatest impact, because it's not only driven by local folks, but it's much easier to be adopted by local folks. 

Marvin Venay (11:17):

Absolutely. Absolutely

Joshua Croke (11:19)

Right? And em embraced and accepted.

Marvin Venay (11:20):

And then you, the other thing is too, and you're saying this the same way, uh, and I'll just give it a little differently. The people you serve want to know that they have an involvement in their learning process, that they're not just being talked to, but they're being talked with. And at Tech Goes Home, we value talking with our learners than talking at our learners or making our learners feel like that they are just a part of an equation. And so when you're talking about this digital divide, this digital divide is serious. It is something that is, that is very, it's not a touch and go, this is intimate. You know, I, I joined this work after having experienced, uh, some of, a lot of the calamities that many of our learners experience. And, and this is growing up in a housing projects, uh, not, you know, knowing where resources were gonna come from and having to, uh, look for support from the government.

Marvin Venay (12:17):

And then I realized that in order to really make a difference, you have to be in the room. And so when the pandemic hit, I quickly learned like many of us, that having four people home simultaneously working meant that the bandwidth was going to have a little bit of a challenge there, right? And so one person might be able to get their face on the Zoom, and then the other is probably just, you know, literally just standing there with, you know, using some, and this is before probably hand gestures existed. So you had to, you know, pop in with your voice and then, you know, if there's a presentation going on, you might get cut off. I remember one time I was delivering a message and I got cut off three times during the course, and I was in a, I was in a very fortunate position to be able to afford to pay for my internet. And so if that was happening to me, how much, what was the difference for someone who didn't have the resources, right? And so I noticed that students, my son is, as I told you, is a junior. He was in school, they were, you know, on Zoom, and you would find that 90% of the class was not on screen.

Marvin Venay (13:29):

And so you were creating all sorts of other challenges just in the education space because a teacher's teaching to blank screen, they're not aware if the student's attentive, they're not aware if the students retaining, there's, there's a, the disengagement is extreme. And so when we think about this work, we're trying to think about it talking to internet service providers, we're asking them for solutions. So when you start talking about, you know, and we're, I know you wanted dive into this, but like the policy aspect of it is, you know, it's like how do we ensure that there is actual internet access in public housing and that it's adequate and that you, you know, someone can actually log in and they can actually see and explore all that the internet carries versus being limited by, okay, I don't have enough megabytes, or Okay, I'm finding that, you know, um, um, it's, it's taking too long to, to upload, right?

Marvin Venay (14:34):

Or download. So at Tech Goes Home, again, I just wanna emphasize that we're a partner that is really thinking about the individual holistically. And so when we go to the hill, the, the, uh, state house and the city halls throughout the state, we are having conversations about how do we make a difference? How do we make change that's going to be tangible, long lasting and is not band-aiding the issue? Because if Tech Goes Home, we're trying to deal with the root causes, not just the symptoms. Because if you get consumed by the symptoms, then you're lost in the clouds. And we realize that being in the clouds is not gonna get us real impact and it's not gonna make our learners' experiences different. And we're gonna be here 10 years from now having the same conversation. And I know, like you, Joshua, I don't want to have this same conversation in 10 years. Same, right?

Joshua Croke (15:27):

Absolutely. And I want to get into root causes a little bit in a minute, but I also wanna uplift, you know, when we're having the conversations about some of the, the challenges faced, you know, with educators teaching to a classroom of blank screens there, there's so much nuance that I think our listeners and folks who may be sitting in higher in positions of privilege that have not experienced some of as many of these challenges, or maybe they're not a learner or in it classroom environment, we saw in the education space teachers were now looking into the homes of a lot of young people and there's like a, there's a personal intimacy that's kind of breaking or, or almost inviting new opportunity Yeah. For what that relationship looks like between educators and, and youth and families. And also exposing challenges, 

Marvin Venay (16:18):

Absolutely.

Joshua Croke (16:19):

Providing opportunities to connect to support. And so there are so many situational things that might not come to mind instantly. So I'm encouraging our listeners as we're going moving through this season to think about the nuance within all of this as well. And to, to your point of root cause I think it's so critical. And you, you talk about digital exclusion and I'd love to have you lift that up and talk a little bit about that for, for our listeners, really, uh, how do we face address systemic and oppress- oppressive structures, institutional, structural racism as we talk about digital equity. Cuz I think sometimes in the equity conversation folks lose some of what that really means to address equity within this space. Um, so I'd love to, to hear your, your thoughts and, and work around digital exclusion and really addressing that head on. 

Marvin Venay (17:12):

Well we know that this, this, this divide is stemmed in systemic racism. We know that, we know that this is not a something that just began in the last 10 years per se, right? Or, uh, you know, this started before the internet actually existed. And then once it came about, it was another sort of liberating moment that was lost for communities of colors, those communities that were impoverished, the immigrant community, et cetera, et cetera. And so what we've found that, you know, number one, you meet people where they are, right? You, you don't, you don't live up, you don't have them live up to an expectation. You actually meet them in their present state and then you help them evolve so that they can actually deal with what they have been challenged by and discover a pathway to freedom, whatever that freedom is for them individually, because we're not, we can't provide, as you can imagine, we can't provide freedom to people literally, but we can free you of what has limited you in your access point.

Marvin Venay (18:17):

And so this work is about making sure that the family that came from Guam or the family that came from Puerto Rico, or the family that came from the Dominican Republic and has a limited view on what it looks like to have a device, to use a device to actually navigate through a device. We are working to counter those moments. And so we make it our business to create curriculum that addresses those very empirical issues to make sure that we are countering it with solutions. And, and it's not an easy task. So our, our curriculum is done in multiple languages because we want individuals to learn in their native tongue so that they can trust that the process is actually accurate and that it's really thinking and thinking about them, right? Because one thing, you know, if you're coming from a different, from a, from another country and, and your only language is Spanish and someone's trying to talk to you in English, you are going to feel hurt, broken, lost, confused, disrupted. But if someone is talking to you in your native tongue and you can understand exactly what they're saying and it matches up with what you're thinking, now you've created a relationship, you've built trust, and now the teaching process goes a lot smoother, goes a lot cleaner. And what we're also finding is that we're adding in more learners based upon referrals because we are treating people with dignity, integrity and making sure that they feel as if they are a part of the process. And the process is not having them be the subject only.

Joshua Croke (20:10):

And so what are the some of the challenges that you face in your work being able to build, expand, and deliver these services across, you know, you mentioned expanding across the Commonwealth, right? There are policy and financial barriers. What are some of those real things that you're facing right now and what are your hopes for the future?

Marvin Venay (20:28):

Well, I'll tell you, we're trying to reach all Gateway Cities, right? There's 26 Gateway Cities that we're making an attempt to reach all of them, um, because we want to get to the actual population that is in need. Um, and you know, and I, and actually I'm gonna shift this a little bit. We wanna get to the population of people with the greatest opportunity to change their life, right? We get boggled down in certain language and I wanna shift that dynamic if we can here today. What I also want to say is that we are trying to make sure that we create space for everybody who feels like they're not included to be included in this work. So we're making the investments, we're also finding that the challenges lie with, some people are not familiar, they're not aware that we exist sometimes, right? Cause we don't do any marketing, right?

Marvin Venay (21:27):

And so unless we actually work with an organization, you might not be aware that Tech Goes Home exists. We are starting to do something different and that is promoting ourselves a little differently. So even conversations like you and I are having right now, this is why we're so grateful for this opportunity, cuz it affords us the, it affords us the access point to be able to share the story. We don't always get to share the story. So that's, that's something that we are starting to alter, um, the work we're doing as far as advocacy and going to our state legislators and talking about this a little bit differently and putting a face and a name to the data points is making a difference in the halls of justice. But then we're, or, or the halls that we're trying to create justice in, let me put it that way.

Marvin Venay (22:09):

Um, and then if you think about it as well, we're also finding that, you know, you're not going to reach everyone, right? We have a goal of we want to, we wanna touch every individual who falls into the category of 200% below poverty level. We want to make sure that they're, they have an access point. But the reality is it's not always available to us, but we're doing our best and we're trying to partner with those organizations that are actually looking to make impact. And so the organizations that we're working with, they have values for themselves that align with us, and they also have direction on where they want to go for the people that they serve. And they, and we are, by finding agreement, we're seeing, we're able to make more change.

Joshua Croke (23:01):

And you, uh, I believe recently established a partnership with the Alliance for Digital Equity

Marvin Venay (23:06):

Yes

Joshua Croke (23:07):

to expand work in recent and we just had a conversation with Michael DeChiara.

Marvin Venay (23:11):

Frank Robinson and Michael

Joshua Croke (23:12):

Yes. So Michael, uh, we had a conversation with as well talking about work in Western Mass. And it's really, uh, again, when we talk about kind of the nuance and so much that goes into thinking about this, like even like the rural versus the urban differences and need, you know, right. The, and the separation of infrastructure that is or is not present. And you know, folks like Michael and his hometown building their own internet in a space that didn't have, you know, any of it. And now they own their, you know, municipal broadband, which is very, which is very cool. Um, in our, our last couple minutes here, what should I have asked you that I didn't or what do you wanna share with listeners that you feel is really, um, critical for folks to be thinking about as they start en engaging in conversations around digital equity? Because that's what we're really hoping folks will take this conversation to the dinner table, to advocacy and organizing spaces. Um, what might we have missed today?

Marvin Venay (24:09):

I think the important part is people having a baseline of what digital equity means to them. And I think that once you have an understanding of what digital equity means to you, you have a guiding post on where you're going because now you know who you wanna partner with. Now you know who you want to serve now you know who, um, can be a champion for you now, you know, um, where your, uh, five year, what your five year outlook is on, on accomplishing some of these this work. And so I think there's sometimes we, we live in this space of this is a hotbed subject, but we don't understand the subject and it's in, in its totality or we haven't necessarily made it personal for ourselves so that we could ensure that what we are communicating is consistent and what we deliver is, is active and it's not something that is reactive.

Marvin Venay (24:58):

Um, and so I am, I'm, you know, I am very, very excited when I hear people processing from the, the bottom up. You know, we, you know, you know, sometimes, and I get, I get, I get excited about the, the high level conversations and they make perfect sense and they're useful, but I also know that there's value in the bottom too. Um, and so I wanna make sure that the, the people that we serve, that they actually understand why we do this work, you know, and what this work represents for them and how it can make change and impact in their family years down the road. I think about it from the storyline. I remember, you know, when the, and I'm dating myself here, but I remember when, you know, internet became cool, you know, I remember when there was an AOL account and there was a Netscape account.

Marvin Venay (25:42):

And I remember when there was an instant messenger and I was in college and you had to like shoot a message and you know, you might not get a response till six hours later, but it was okay because that was the, that was the means of communicating outside of using a long distance phone call, right? And so having that perspective gives me a different lens and a different outlook on why, and then how important this work is. And I want everyone to have that why and that launching path for themselves so that they will become advocates for empowering others to create their own change. But also making sure that these legislators and that these, these leaders and, and the, and the foundations are seeing that this work needs to have its own voice. That there needs to be change that is long term, that there needs to be funding that exists to make sure that, that it can get accomplished and that we are standing together in unison about how we get this accomplished. Cuz it's not gonna take one person. You can put a number to it, but I can guarantee you one thing, numbers will expire, but people don't.

Joshua Croke (26:55):

Hmm. Marvin, thank you so much for this conversation. I know we have school committee members, city councilors, legislators that, that tune in and listen to the show and, and hopefully this, this season and conversations like this are uplifting digital equity on their advocacy and, you know, legislative agendas. So, um, thank you so much listeners. You've been hearing a conversation with Marvin Venay, Chief Advocacy Officer at Tech Goes Home for our series on digital equity. Marvin, again, thanks so much for joining us. We'll include links to follow Marvin and, uh, Tech Goes Home in our show notes. So make sure to check those out and stay up to date on this important work. And thank you listeners for listening to Public Hearing, our podcast and radio show that airs Wednesdays at 6:00 PM on WICN 90.5FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station. Our audio producer is Giuliano D’Orazio. And thank you to our production team, Kellee Kosiorek and Jack Tripp, who also make this show possible. And if you want to help out, check us out at publichearing.co. The work continues folks. Thanks for listening.