The Politics of Getting Online with MA State Rep. David LeBoeuf

This season of Public Hearing has explored Digital Equity efforts across the nation and the variety of innovative community-oriented approaches to getting people connected. How can these strategies be adapted to best serve the Massachusetts Gateway Cities and other communities working towards digital justice?

For the final episode of our Public Hearing Series on Digital Equity, Josh sits down with David LeBoeuf, State Representative for the 17th Worcester District (@DavidLeBoeuf) to discuss what we’ve learned so far, legislative efforts to improve digital access in Worcester, and the possibility of a public internet service provider in the Commonwealth.

Public Hearing is a podcast from Action! by Design where we explore the unique challenges and opportunities facing Massachusetts' Gateway Cities as they work to create more equitable, liberated, and sustainable communities. Listen to all of our episodes at https://publichearing.buzzsprout.com/ and follow us on Twitter @PublicHearingMA to keep up to date on all things Public Hearing!

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Transcript

Joshua Croke (00:02):

Hello, Worcester and the world. You are listening to Public Hearing on WICN 90.5FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm your host Joshua Croke, and we are wrapping up our season on digital equity today with David LeBoeuf, State Representative for the 17th Worcester District. Public Hearing is Action! by Design's podcast and radio show where we explore the unique challenges and opportunities facing Massachusetts Gateway cities as they work to create more equitable, liberated and sustainable communities. We're bringing you stories of community change work featuring the people and organizations working to make a difference in their cities, and we're so happy to be seeing listeners share and talk about this season and the importance of digital equity in our communities. You can learn more about the show at publichearing.co. This is the Public Hearing podcast. So to introduce where we've come or to really conclude where we've come this season, we've talked about the three legs of the stool around digital equity, access to devices, access to the internet, and access to training and education and resources.

Joshua Croke (01:05):

Paul Matthews from the Worcester Regional Research Bureau shared their work to collect and share data around access inequities and possible paths forward. Michael DeChiara shared his work across the state and his critical role in his town of Shutesbury, where they built and own their own fiber network. Marvin Venay from Tech Goes Home talked about their unique approach to addressing all three legs of the stool and their expansion across Massachusetts. In addition to sharing some of their advocacy to ensure funding and resources continue past, quote, unquote past the pandemic, Gina D. Cooper Benjamin, Deputy Director of the National Digital Inclusion Alliance, spoke with us about connecting digital equity efforts across the nation, amplifying youth voices and truly centering equity in our approaches. And Katie Hearn spoke to us about advocating for shared ownership, demanding reparative action in the digital equity conversation, and introduced us to the concept of communication as a human right.

Joshua Croke (02:01):

Through all of this, there are different levers that people use in their circles of power and influence, and I'm so glad we're wrapping up our season with an elected official, a legislator, using that power to move forward change. Our guest today is Rep. David LeBoeuf. David is in his third term serving as state representative for the 17th Worcester District, which is made up of parts of Worcester and Leicester. He's a lifelong resident of Worcester and proud graduate of South High and the Worcester Public Schools. Legislation he's filed this session includes bills on internet service outages and public broadband, fare free RTA buses and electric school buses, early education workforce shortages, lead in housing, health insurance on day one for public employees and reform of the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education. David, it's so great to have you here. Thank you for coming on Public Hearing. I always like to invite guests to share anything additional about themselves that they'd, uh, like listeners to know before we dive into our conversation around digital equity today.

David LeBoeuf (03:02):

Great. And, and Joshua, thanks so much for having me. Um, on here. I I just think something maybe that your listeners might be a little bit interested in. You know, I've listened to a couple of your episodes. Um, I am one of the few legislators that's in both the Gateway City and the Rural Caucus. So I've seen a lot of these issues kind of manifest themselves in, in different ways. Um, and I'm also someone who, you know, especially during the pandemic, has seen how state services have had to really adapt and what our successes have been digitally, but also what our failures, um, have been digitally. So that's really changed a lot of my perspective on, um, you know, what digital equity means and what we can do, um, from a public policy side.

Joshua Croke (03:41):

Amazing. And I'd, and I'd love to jump in there because one of the conversations that we've had with some of our guests this season is that difference and similarity of access in rural communities versus urban environments. And, you know, in our Gateway cities. We've talked a lot about, um, the equity access and kind of how there's like this digital redlining that takes place in communities, and the, so there's a lot of nuance and intersecting, uh, challenges that face our, our cities and our rural communities. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more about how did you connect into the digital equity conversation? What kind of perked your ears to these challenges?

David LeBoeuf (04:21):

Sure. I mean, the pandemic, you know, really opened our mind to a lot of the failures in society that we have in a lot of our systems, whether it's our housing, um, healthcare, and really, you know, we couldn't ignore inequity. You know, I think we talked about it in an academic standpoint, you know, you hear about it, but in the pandemic you really put it in front of everybody's faces. And digital access was one of them. You know, I remember, you know, there was a time when, you know, the internet went out in the city of Worcester for a significant period of time when there was virtual learning. Um, and that actually inspired me to file the legislation around treating internet outages the same way that we treat other utility outages, but just the other systems that are supposed to protect, um, you know, our basic needs and necessities.

David LeBoeuf (05:12):

How if there was a crisis to come in, because we do depend a lot on digital access, how if something happens, they get over flood, they get over flooded, they can't work, but also when does it go too far? And that by completely removing the human element and completely turning it over to digital and mechanization, how does that actually prevent people from accessing services? Um, so it's kind of, it, it's, it's made me really think about that striking a balance, especially as technology, um, evolves and oftentimes technology evolves quicker, um, than the law does, or as society does often evolves quicker than, um, the law does. And so it, it really requires someone like myself in a policy position to be attentive and really listen to, um, a lot of the stakeholders that, that you've interviewed, but also just what everyday citizens are going through.

Joshua Croke (06:06):

And one of the things that we've talked a lot about on this show is, um, exposing listeners to the different layers of their own engagement in kind of their, the civics process, the getting involved both at, at from a local perspective and in local government, and also better understanding or participating and understanding how residents can use their power to support policy change and things like that. So what, for what, as we talk about the levers of, of power and, and change, why is legislation such a critical component for that? And how do community members better tap into some of the work that you're doing? And I want to talk about some of the bills that you've put forward related to digital equity and public internet service. Um, but fundamentally, if you were to, you know, if you have this platform to say, get more involved in your, your local legislative process, um, how would you talk to that to, to listeners?

David LeBoeuf (07:03):

Sure, absolutely. And I always start, you know, when I present to like a civics class or, or, or a larger group, I always say, you know, in my district I represent about 47,000 people, which means I have 47,000 bosses. You know, my responsibility as a legislator is I am hired and reevaluated every two years, and if they're not liking my performance or how I'm representing the district can be fired through the electoral process. So essentially, you know, that's one of the determinations for how your government is gonna work. Uh, the other thing is the government, um, you know, has enforcement power, you know, and that's one of the the things that I, you know, as someone who came from the nonprofit sector and has also worked, um, in the private sector, why I really navigated myself towards the public sector is because as you're looking at a lot of societal problems, there's only so much a nonprofit can do.

David LeBoeuf (07:56):

You can put up a little bit of bandaid on it, but if you don't have changing the rules of the game, and if you can't change the structure, then it's gonna be ineffective. And so that's where legislation comes in. Um, you know, as a public entity, we are accountable directly to the people when it comes to maybe an internet service provider or another, you know, technological platform. They're accountable to their shareholders. So that's a completely different audience and a completely different need. And technology has really changed in our modern era from being just a luxury to a utility to something as valuable to people as water, as shelter, um, because it provides access, but also to be able to do many basic things to live in civil society, you have to interact with some type of platform, you know, applying for public benefits, applying for a job, um, looking, you know, to go to schooling, you know, interacting. Um, even with the judicial system, um, technology is becoming more and more part of the modus operandi and not necessarily kind of the alternative or, um, something that I wish we could have. It's something we need to have.

Joshua Croke (09:11):

And I was, I was so shocked to learn a little bit more about how people access internet in Worcester In our conversation with Paul Matthews, uh, the executive director of the Worcester Regional Research Bureau, we talked about some of their like Broadening Broadband reports. Um, and the, the fact that there's, you know, the, a monopoly almost over internet service provid- like providing internet service to people, and that in the contract with the city, um, that Spectrum holds that internet isn't even really part of that agreement. It's it's provided by the, you know, a private company because it's profitable. And so recognizing that that's like our main line of access, and technically if they deemed it not valuable or not profitable or not worthwhile going into certain communities, which is something that has been, as you said, exposed during the pandemic, they could just remove it. And we'd have, um, a, a really big challenge of thinking about how do we connect and, and keep folks connected.

Joshua Croke (10:16):

We spoke with Katie Hearn, who's doing a lot of work in Detroit around these issues and is really building local community power through this like node-based method of connection. Um, and, you know, creating fiber networks and, and getting people online and really building community power around access. Um, and talks about this concept of communication as a human right, which really stood out to me as something that I hadn't really heard before. And it really struck me of like, yeah, wow. How important is communication within our, within our city, within our communities? It's absolutely an equity issue if people aren't able to talk to each other by, you know, this method of communication, like using the internet. Um, there's so much that people can be disconnected from. Um, and you listed many of those resources, and so you've introduced some bills, um, this session around some of these conversations. And I'd love to, um, have you introduce some of those to our, our listeners as well. Um, the first is House Bill 3831 An Act to Establish Public Internet Service. Um, could you share a little bit about that?

David LeBoeuf (11:26):

Sure. So essentially what that would look to do would be to create a, a state managed ISP, so essentially a public competitor to, um, private internet service providers. Very similar to like what you hear with municipalities that have their own ownership over something, but this would be the common commonwealth wide. Um, and what really that, one of the responses to that is because obviously we're limited a lot into what the regulation of internet providers can be because of some of the federal law in some of the federal, you know, the Federal Trade Commission. But we could make our own competitor that actually is operated and managed by our values, and that the profits, um, or the level of profit on that provider can be reinvested into providing access reinvested into the education programs, um, that are done. And, and we've seen that for in general, an initiative like that is more cost effective for people.

David LeBoeuf (12:29):

Um, I think you've heard from a, from, you know, other municipal leaders that show that they've been able to either lower their rates or you also have a direct connection when it comes to customer service of someone that's legally responsible to you, um, from a public sector, um, perspective. Um, but also even when you're, you're looking at kind of the, the usage of it in the general collective nature of it, you know, I I kind of compare it to municipal aggregate agreements with electricity, you know, as you've seen electricity and even gas, like the rates have been significantly higher because of a lot of the, the global conflict and a lot of the supply issues that have been going on. But even though the rates went up across the board, those in the municipal aggregate agreement had more bargaining power to prevent the hike as much.

David LeBoeuf (13:21):

To have a publicly owned ISP that will be able to essentially have larger purchasing power, have larger, um, negotiating power in certain markets that's across the entire state. Um, rather than competing in smaller markets and smaller contracts, you'll be able to replicate similar things. So that, that's my direction on that. You know, it is a pretty, um, bold initiative. Um, you know, there's, there's definitely, um, it hasn't, I haven't talked about it as much, um, just given some of the, the challenges that we've been facing, you know, economically with, with how the housing crisis and different things. But it's a conversation we need to have because, you know, some of the things that we're seeing with other utilities, um, you know, I come from a district where water costs, um, in the challenges of economics of scale are really crippling people's budgets, um, in the town of Leicester and, and even in Worcester, you know, we're seeing, you know, issues with that and, you know, potential interventions with lawsuits with other communities, and internet at some point could get to that level. So let's try to do something in a preventative fashion.

Joshua Croke (14:30):

Absolutely. And yeah, I was at, um, recently at an economic development forum that the, uh, the governor is, is doing across the state, and it was for Central Mass and some of the smaller towns, Charlton, Leicester, et cetera, all of them were talking about water and like the challenges there and the cost there. And, and that's the other thing that I think we really try and help to paint a, a complex and nuanced narrative of is how intersecting these challenges are. And you know, how one thing kind of impacts the other and also priority needs to be elevated and how is that determined? And, um, so when you talk about this bill and what does support look like and what are some of the challengers saying, um, is it mostly around kind of funding and just like priority or are there other kind of thoughts around the concept of Commonwealth Internet?

David LeBoeuf (15:22):

Sure. I mean, the, the major opposition is gonna come from all of the current internet utility providers, similar to the reaction that, you know, we saw in Worcester when there were proposals about, you know, coming up with a municipal broadband, um, proposal. You know, again, it cuts into a particular market share. So that's where the main, um, opposition is. And, and this has, is hasn't been done that often. Um, you know, I at the top of my mind, can't think of another jurisdiction as large in the United States that's, that's done something like this. Um, so it would be definitely new and obviously cost of the startup, I think that is anytime you're launching new initiatives that are digitally based, I think the startup costs are always, um, what holds people back from going into that space is that, you know, oh, it's gonna be too expensive.

David LeBoeuf (16:14):

But I think there's two dynamics to think about that it may be too, it may be upfront costs now, but in the long run, you're gonna definitely be saving, you know, finances from a state perspective. It's a public competitor which means that the profits can be reinvested and relieve some of our general fund. Um, but also our residents will hopefully, if the, if it works out as, as it's worked out on a smaller scale, um, will have more money in their pockets, which is more disposable income, which can be reinvested back into the economy. Um, but, but it's a large, it's a large conversation. You know, I think one of the great things is that in Massachusetts we've done, um, you know, we've done a lot to really make sure that we're keeping our eye on the ball when it comes to, um, internet and emerging technologies.

David LeBoeuf (17:06):

You know, this year the House and the Senate created a joint committee, um, on Internet, um, IT and Advanced Technologies, um, which is brand new. And I think that was because of the need of the pandemic. And then four years ago, uh, we had what was called an IT bond bill, um, which a bond bill means that we've given the administration, um, and administration meaning the governor's office and, and her executive team, um, permission to expend a certain amount of money on particular projects. And so a lot of that money went towards technological improvements, um, you know, in cities and towns, but also in state government. You know, I think there's a lot of systems that we have that either aren't functioning, you know, the unemployment system during the pandemic was a disaster because it couldn't handle it. It's gotten significantly better, um, because we had to invest in that.

David LeBoeuf (18:08):

Um, I know we've heard from the court systems that, you know, they have really outdated ways of interacting with people, whether it's with small places, small claims cases, or, you know, or going through any other judicial process. And, you know, the same thing, I hope, you know, and it's related to another bill I have about health insurance on day one for state employees. So our state employees right now have sometimes between a 60 and a 75 day waiting period before they can get health insurance. And one of the major issues when I first introduced this bill five years ago was, well, our systems can't handle the process of starting it on day one. And I think obviously with the pandemic, we've seen that health and wellness has become more important in society. We've also seen that it's really just an equity and a worker's rights issue, but now we have some funding to help those entities that control, um, the group insurance commission to start investing back into that system where we've gotten buy-in from a lot of those stakeholders and the attorney general, um, you know, has been endorsing the bill and, and has seen its impacts on her own staff.

David LeBoeuf (19:17):

And so, um, you know, it, it's something we have to do because again, technology can be a great way to move forward, but also is often used as an excuse of, we can't do it. We don't have the money, it's gonna hold us back. It's brand new. It could mess up, but you have to take the first step at some point, and after a certain point, it doesn't make any sense that we're not doing it in the public sector if the private sector is already doing it.

Joshua Croke (19:43):

Absolutely. I could go on a whole tangent around healthcare and like process failures, and my background is in user experience design in the tech space, and 

David LeBoeuf (19:54):

Oh, nice. 

Joshua Croke (19:55):

I was doing that before my work in community design and development, and there are just like so many things that are just glaring in like our systems and our processes and procedures that are like, it's a design issue, and maybe I'm biased as a designer, but I'm like, this is a design issue. These things can be addressed and fixed and made much more effective and impactful for people, um, and fit better into the day-to-day lives of, of individuals. And like, and while we're having this conversation around like internet access and like digital equity, so much of our society is now run online, um, the platforms, you know, healthcare, et cetera, as as, as we've mentioned. So the other bill that you filed is, um, House Bill 68 An Act Relative to Internet Service Outages. Could you talk a little bit about that?

David LeBoeuf (20:45):

Sure. Um, what that particular piece of legislation does is it treats an internet, um, outage the same way that an electric, um, outage would be, you know, if your electricity goes out, whether it's a scheduled for maintenance, um, or because of some issue, whether it's a storm, there's a process that the electric company has to go through in order to notify the customers to provide a timeline, to give regular updates, to notify the Department of Public Utilities as to what it was. Um, just so people are aware, you know, and that is something that, you know, I, I can think of recently, I know there was a major, um, you know, when we had one of those really, really arctic blasts, you know, there was a, a power outage kind of over in the neighborhood across from Big Y where June Street is because of some, um, construction issue, and there was gonna be a timed outage.

David LeBoeuf (21:46):

And so that was something that, you know, there was obviously concern about what's gonna happen, is it gonna be done by the time it freezes? Different things like that. And because of the systems that National Grid had in place, I was able to get the information, we were able to make sure that the customers were on getting the regular updates, but there was a process for what I could do, um, and what District Counselor Haxhiaj could do, and what the everyday consumers that live on Mayfair Street could do to know what's gonna happen. To know, you know, what do I is, you know, is everything gonna be okay with my family? And it, it really put people at ease. And with internet access, you know, especially with the fact that it's become people's jobs, you know, if you have your internet out. I remember one time, you know, during the pandemic, I had to present on a panel on Zoom, and the internet was out in my neighborhood, and I, I was going frantic trying to find a place to go.

David LeBoeuf (22:50):

You know, I've, I've heard of, um, you know, people that have been in parking lots, you know, that were doing, you know, homework in parking lots outside of public areas because of the internet access, you know, I know, um, the Leicester Public Library, they were keeping kind of track to figure out like when were people using, um, the library and they noticed there was an uptick in internet service on these particular times, and they're like, but we're closed. And it was really because of some of the challenges that people in the Leicester community were facing with the providers that they had in their homes. Um, and were able to use the library services. So because it's become so essential, you know, it's a consumer's, right, especially when you're paying something to know what's going on. And also with something that large that has an economic impact, you know, companies can't do business.

David LeBoeuf (23:42):

I mean, I'm sure you or many of your listeners, you've gone to a coffee shop and, you know, hardly anyone carries cash anymore. And, and it's hard to pay because the credit card machine's down because it's on the internet, um, or, or some, some other situation. And, and with schools, and that was really the impetus, was the fact that there was a major issue where there was an outage for hours during the school day, and the school department couldn't get any information. My office couldn't get any information. There just was no communication and the information that was being given either was overly limited or was completely inaccurate in the estimates. Um, which again, we don't face the same challenges with an electric outage as we did with an internet outage. And so it, it's something to really kind of get us up with the times on that.

Joshua Croke (24:34):

Absolutely. And so acknowledging and recognizing the critical nature of, of access and plans to address outages, things like that. In our last two minutes here, what are things that you'd like for listeners to take away from today's conversation, and what do you hope they'll, they'll do with that information? We always try and encourage, like, what's the dinner table conversation? How do we get people actively advocating for the change that we need to see in our communities around these issues?

David LeBoeuf (25:01):

That's great. I, you know, what I would say is anything when it comes to implementing technology or looking at policy and, and what the government should be doing with technology, kind of, there's two components. One, how do you improve the efficiency to make sure that information is communicated, but also how is it done in a way that it doesn't remove the human nature of the service and block people out? You know, I think I've heard a lot of complaints as I'm dealing with the housing crisis, that the rental assistance system, it's all online. Well, there are some elders or people with limited English or people that, again, if you're in a rental assistance, you know, situation, you might not have access to a public computer or a laptop that can't get that done. Um, also making sure that as you're getting involved in engaging your public officials, really helping them understand the user experience.

David LeBoeuf (25:56):

And I'm glad you, you, you mentioned that from your background because lots of times things are done in a particular way without realizing there's also a data management issue. And using technology to break down silos and to share that information to do better for our community is really what the objective is. And anytime technology gets in the way of that, or anytime you hear that, we can't do this because the technology's not up to it, that's when you need to start questioning it. And that's when you need to start engaging for what can the solution be then.

Joshua Croke (26:30):

Absolutely. Well, David, thank you so much for coming on the show. We've been talking to Representative David LeBoeuf, state rep for the 17th Worcester District for our series on digital equity. We'll include links to, uh, follow David's work in our show notes, so make sure to check those out and stay updated about this important work. And thank you listeners for listening to Public Hearing, our podcast and radio show that airs Wednesdays at 6:00 PM on WICN 90.5 FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station and can be heard wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show seeks to amplify stories of community efforts working towards equity, justice, and joy across Worcester, Massachusetts, Gateway Cities and the Nation. I'm your host, Joshua Croke, founder of Action! by Design, a mission driven consultancy supporting community growth and change through the transformative power of creative arts, media, and design. Learn more about our work, including the show at actionbydesign.co, and become a member of our new Ko-fi page at kofi.com/publichearing for access to exclusive content. Our audio producer is Giuliano D’Orazio, who also made our show music. Thank you to our production team, Kellee Kosiorek and Jack Tripp, who also make this show possible. The work and the conversations continue folks, thanks for listening.